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[Music]

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and

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you think that absolutely it should be

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permitted to

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sleep on the sidewalks anywhere and

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everywhere so so

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so you when you're walking with your

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children you're totally fine with the

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idea that they may have to occasionally

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step over a homeless person

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so i wouldn't say i'm totally fine with

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that idea i think

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the the i think that homelessness is a

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really uncomfortable visible

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manifestation of poverty right but i

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also know from the from the literature

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review and from the best practice

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um that those types of laws just aren't

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effective in ending the in ending the

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problem

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um and so i would i would hope that well

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it may not and it may not end the

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problem and would

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focus their attention on the types of

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solutions that work

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so where where else are

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could homeless be permitted to sleep

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that would be

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i mean because you know you have

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long-term solutions and short-term

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solutions we need some short-term

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solutions that

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that guide us into longer-term solutions

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i mean what are some cities doing

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in your opinion that are working for

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instance are they taking a park

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and saying that you know this used to be

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a nice park where everybody

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played in but sorry we've got exited

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circumstances here

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we're going to make this park a homeless

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park for now no i think the solutions

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are low barrier shelters

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where people are engaged in effective

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street outreach move to low barrier

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shelters

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and then quickly moved on to better more

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permanent supportive options

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so but somehow and i don't know how

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chicago is doing on this but somehow

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chicago

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la is behind on having these low barrier

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shelters so they they need to be popular

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they're it's not a very popular strategy

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because people want to see

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um you know there's that idea that

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people ought to have fully kicked their

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substance use issue and their mental

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health issue before they're given a

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place to live

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and so it's it is a controversial um

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kind of suggestion to make but what we

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know about it is that it is

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effective in moving people off of the

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street and to be clear

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define low barrier shelter for us yeah

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so low barrier shelter means um

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you can come in with a partner of the

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different sects most shelters are

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are split by gender um so there's the

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the man's shelter in the women's shelter

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and so a low barrier shelter means a

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couple can come in together if they want

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to

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a low barrier shelter can mean that

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they're able to bring their dog or their

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cat in

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they don't have to be separated from

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from that animal and it can

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oftentimes mean a certain level of

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substance use

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but again what each community is able to

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to deal with

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might be different so you might see low

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barrier shelters where they don't allow

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a pet

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um but but our best practice

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is a low barrier shelter that allows for

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all of those things and then is staffed

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with extremely

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high quality high skilled staff members

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who are then able to engage that person

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in further services that get them

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moved more into the housing and you

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happen to know

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has la embraced this or been kind of

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opposed i have not

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i haven't looked into it in la um

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it would surprise me if they haven't you

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know started down the conversation

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um but but i don't know i can't answer

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that for you

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and what about as we look worldwide is

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there a particular country that you can

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point to

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that really seems to have this figured

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out that ought to be our role model

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you're not going to like the answer on

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this one it's finland

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they have a really strong national

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strategy that they've had in place for

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30 years

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remember in the beginning we were

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talking about those categories of

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homelessness

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they've eliminated the first one so they

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don't have street homelessness there in

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finland

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they do have some shelters which which

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um um so they can

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they can identify people before they

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come street homeless move them into the

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shelter for the temporary situation

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and then they work with them to um to to

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make sure they're moving quickly from

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those shelters

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into permanent um accommodation okay so

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walk walk us through how they've been

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able

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to do it is this something that they had

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a problem and then they said 30 years

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ago

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finland said housing is a right for our

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citizens and we're going to make sure

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that they all have access to it

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because that's what they deserve and so

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the fourth largest landlord in finland

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is an ngo and so that ngo buys

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property off the market uh sets it aside

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and preserves it

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um in every community for people who are

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experiencing homelessness

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okay is it legal to sleep on the

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sidewalk there

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yeah it is so so you've got all

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this housing that's provided for

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that that that to the point where you've

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got zero homeless problem but you saw

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people sleeping on the sidewalk

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sorry i can't hear you the trains going

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by can you repeat the question

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despite the fact that you say that they

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essentially have no homeless problem and

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they've

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taken care of it through

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government-provided housing they still

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have people sleeping on the sidewalk

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no they don't but it's legal too okay

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because there's no law against it is

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what i'm saying they've never had to

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make that law

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and so if i'm the moot point because

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they focused on the solutions

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well it's it's moot if people are going

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to them but

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people still oftentimes have a lot of

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reason to not want to

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be in those situations so bottom line

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you're saying that

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it exists or it doesn't exist in finland

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as far as you know so

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it doesn't exist in street homelessness

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in the street homelessness category

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there's a small number of people

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that that that are living in shelters so

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that category of temporary and crisis

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accommodation

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and then when you actually ask people

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who are working in the sector in finland

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how many people are homeless

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um they say five thousand i say how can

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that be you you don't have any street

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homelessness and so they are

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they have now expanded their definition

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and they are focusing on people who are

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living doubled up

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and so that's their goal now to make

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sure that all of those people

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have homes of their own which i think is

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a really uh beautiful example of how you

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can be expanding that definition

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and continuing to help people who who

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are in need once you've solved it for

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those who are most vulnerable and most

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at risk

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so what tell me what that would look

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like in the u.s

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if we were to try to implement this yeah

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well

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i think we would first really focus on

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people who are living on the street and

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we would focus on on prevention

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right so what is caught what are the

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drivers into homelessness um

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that we can we can look at with

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preventative strategies to make sure

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that the number of people becoming

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street homeless

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gets less and less over time then i

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think we would be focusing on

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the effective street outreach including

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the low barrier shelters quickly moving

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people off the street and into that

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temporary crisis accommodation um

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and then but but that's what you and i

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have acknowledged is

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is is tricky though getting these people

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off oh this is not easy work but it

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can't be done and we have a

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solid evidence base for the best ways of

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doing that

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not yet commonplace

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so that's what we really need to focus

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on as a sector is making those

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those best um you know effective street

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outreach

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practices happening in more and more

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places and then

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the the person would be taken off the

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street and put into

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directly into permanent housing if

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you're following the finish model

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so they they spend some time in

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in shelters doing assessments to figure

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out like what it is that they

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what it is that they need and then

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they'll match that person with whatever

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their housing solution is so i think for

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some of them it's for people who have

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you know the recurring um sort of

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compounding health or mental health

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issues that might mean permanent

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housing and supports for them other

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people need some some temporary

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some temporary or reduced support to get

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back on their feet

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um so so it just is dependent on what

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that person needs but it's not

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you know yeah and then ultimately

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if you're what below a certain income

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level then

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is it government housing is provided for

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free or is it

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discounted based upon your income level

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or what i'm not sure all the ins and

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outs of it but i

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think that um

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they still believe that the person

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should sign the lease

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and that person should still pay for

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their you know the 30

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or whatever that month and so it might

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mean that if a person is getting

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government benefits they're still taking

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that benefit writing the check

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making that payment because there's

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something very sort of dignified about

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that right like i have this lease

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i write this check um it may not matter

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if that's a if that's an

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employer paying that that money or if

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it's a social benefit that's coming and

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paying that money

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um but that has been something that

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they've found really um

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to be really important in their model um

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that that person feels ownership over

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writing that rent check every month

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and where have they been building these

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these housing units

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i don't know that they're building

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housing units um but they

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are they're buying them off of the off

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of the free market um and then

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preserving them for people who

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who need that permanent support that's

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sort of about the prevention of

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or the uh preservation of housing for

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people in need

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i got to go back to one thing you said

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because it was pretty controversial but

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i let it go at the time and that that is

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when you talked about systemic

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reasons you put racism number one what

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what

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how do you relate racism to uh

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homelessness

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yeah so when you look at sort of those

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um the

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the intersections of people who are the

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most likely to become homeless

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um at least in the unit well it's

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actually true in almost all communities

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that regardless of what you're

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um kind of so like in canada for example

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people who

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are um first nations are more likely to

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be

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overly represented in the issue of

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homelessness in canada it's people who

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are aboriginal

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um in the united states it's people who

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are african-american

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when you look at the statistics they're

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overly represented

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um in the people who become homeless and

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so that you know indicates that there

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are some

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um systemic issues that are causing

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these sorts of things housing

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discrimination

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that type of thing that we need to make

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sure that we're really

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taking a hard look at and making sure

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that

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you know no matter what the color of

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your skin is you have the same access to

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housing and services

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um as anyone else okay i understand

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though

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you're not necessarily saying that it's

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result

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intentional discrimination against

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somebody based on the color of their

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skin

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you suggest well i think that i mean

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that can happen in terms of housing

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discrimination

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like if you're you know look if you're

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if you're looking for an apartment and

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you've

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found one that um you know is within

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what you can afford

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and you might be discriminated against i

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mean we can't rule that out

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right we know that's illegal and you can

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sue for that but it doesn't mean it

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doesn't

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happen so true

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but that's that's the type of racism

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you're talking about

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okay gotcha okay awesome tell me

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anything that i missed

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that that you really want to say or it's

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important message to

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to get across because as i said it's a

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complicated issue

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and we're grappling with it here in

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california

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and i don't think people frankly are

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really coalescing

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around a single solution yeah

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yeah i mean i guess what i would say is

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that um

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the issue is solvable and a lot of the

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solutions are common sense solutions and

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so

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i think rather than

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you know arguing about some of the

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nuances just bringing people together

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and saying this is the

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scope of the problem these are the

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factors um

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these are the solutions and it's going

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to take that whole society approach

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um to getting it done so everyone has a

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role let's figure out whose role is what

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and let's get it done

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thank you so much to lydia's thousand

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for coming on the show you can go check

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out

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her organization the institute for

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global homelessness

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uh just google it and you'll find

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information about her organization

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thank you to our producer michael parker

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thank you to our intern jake

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wall thank you all for listening we'll

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be back soon with another episode of the

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thank you for listening to the truth

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show with jim breslow

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you can find us at hiddentruthshow.com

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follow us on facebook twitter and

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instagram that hit the truth show

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